Curse

stueyman2099 · Jan 22, 2007, 11:32 AM // 11:32

One of the problems with the whole weekend (which was brought up on Team-iQ) is that in rolling out a complete rework to the maps AND a skill balance at the same time makes it quite hard to find where problems lie. Is kill count bad becuase the mechanic is bad, or becuase ele AoE's are so strong this weekend?

Stixxx · Jan 22, 2007, 12:00 PM // 12:00

No that i'm liking it THAT much, but at least the kill count maps made a change to those lame holding builds out there...

The Silver Star · Jan 22, 2007, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Seph

Yea, it takes so much skill to farm rating in american times vs henchguilds.

Well i got my Fierce Champ a few months ago, and frankly i found GvG going downhill and full of more "gimmick" builds that HA, i for one will enver go back to GvG the only build i see they call "balanced" is 2 Melee, 2 Mes, 1 Ele, 2 Monks, 1 Flagger. And because this is really the only "balanced" i se i dont think its balanced...... to be honest GvG is easier to farm than Heroes Ascent, all that matters is that you win more than you loose until you hit 1200 and then either win more or jsut stay a the same place getting about 10 champ points a day, GvG actually felt like farm builds farming each other O_O

mikkel · Jan 22, 2007, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomway Ftw

HA should not be changed to what GvGers want, it should be the way the people who actualy liked it want it, end of story.

So instead of catering to the majority, ANet should cater to *you*? That's pretty arrogant right there.

phasola · Jan 22, 2007, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

So instead of catering to the majority, ANet should cater to *you*? That's pretty arrogant right there.

Are you dumb or what ?
Oh wait i don't PvE but i'll share my opinions on how to make it better. K ?

mikkel · Jan 22, 2007, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by phasola

Are you dumb or what ?
Oh wait i don't PvE but i'll share my opinions on how to make it better. K ?

Woah, it used to take at least two or three posts to get to the point of petty insults here.

Read that post again there. Do you know what GvG is?

phasola · Jan 22, 2007, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Mm what is this GvG people are talking about master ?
So according to your logic, HA should be changed according to what GvG'ers want. So then let's change GvG to what HA people like. Let's add a ghost !11

Randomway Ftw · Jan 22, 2007, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stixxx

No that i'm liking it THAT much, but at least the kill count maps made a change to those lame holding builds out there...

In 8v8 was there ever a constant problem with holding builds? The two most overpowered things that people used to hold halls were pre-nerf bloodspike, and old spirit, only one of these builds lacked the ability to kill something (spirit spam), the other was perfectly able of killing by spiking until the infuser ran out of energy, the build was just overpowered all around.

Once you understand the point that holding builds were not a major issue in 8v8, you come to realize that these changes are crap.

mikkel · Jan 22, 2007, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by phasola

Mm what is this GvG people are talking about master ?
So according to your logic, HA should be changed according to what GvG'ers want. So then let's change GvG to what HA people like. Let's add a ghost !11

I have absolutely no idea how you derive your "logic" from that. By my logic, PvP should be made to appeal to the majority of PvP players before anything else is taken into consideration. Catering to a niche group of oldschool players should definitely not be the top agenda.

Randomway Ftw · Jan 23, 2007, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikkel

I have absolutely no idea how you derive your "logic" from that. By my logic, PvP should be made to appeal to the majority of PvP players before anything else is taken into consideration. Catering to a niche group of oldschool players should definitely not be the top agenda.

Lets assume for a moment that your logic is correct, if so where should we draw the line, should GvG be modded because RA players want it to? Should PvP as whole be altered because PVEers want it to?

tacitus · Jan 23, 2007, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikkel

I have absolutely no idea how you derive your "logic" from that. By my logic, PvP should be made to appeal to the majority of PvP players before anything else is taken into consideration. Catering to a niche group of oldschool players should definitely not be the top agenda.

Ok say your right and a niche of old school players should be ignored.
However I dont believe its a niche that wants HA back to 8v8 I believe it is the majority of people that actually play the game or would do.

Now if these changes brought in stay as they are HA will prob be busy for a few weeks before the population returns to what it just was a few weeks ago. The underlying issue that most people wanted changed was ignored with superfical attempts to appeal to the general population. The result is that many people will/have lost all hope in a return to 8v8 and can allow the rest of the population to skip straight from underworld to HoH without the necessary fights in between.

ayame ftw · Jan 23, 2007, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Shiz

To be honest, a lot of the top HA teams decided to try their hand at gvg because HA isn't completely worth playing. That's why you see guilds in the top 100 doing HA a lot. Because they are an HA first guild that decided to GvG because Anet ruined HA for them.

QFT

We tried Ha when on Friday evening. After a couple of runs we saw the update was completely stupid and refused to play until the weekend was over. We rage quitted after running around a team on broken tower for 10 min trying to score a kill with a pressure build….
So we did so GvG/PvE instead... its sad but true. I think this happened to allot of Ha guilds

mikkel · Jan 23, 2007, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomway Ftw

Lets assume for a moment that your logic is correct, if so where should we draw the line, should GvG be modded because RA players want it to? Should PvP as whole be altered because PVEers want it to?

If RA players willing to start playing GvG if changes were made to it were the majority PvP population, then yes. Of course. I just doubt that this is the case. Asking if PvP should be altered because of what PvEers want defies my logic. I specifically seperated the two. That's anologous to asking if bike manufacturers should suit car drivers just because both drive on roads. It's illogical.

Zui · Jan 23, 2007, 09:36 AM // 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by ayame ftw

We tried Ha when on Friday evening. After a couple of runs we saw the update was completely stupid and refused to play until the weekend was over. We rage quitted after running around a team on broken tower for 10 min trying to score a kill with a pressure build….
So we did so GvG/PvE instead... its sad but true. I think this happened to allot of Ha guilds

Hi, I'm curious, how do you fail to score kills with a balanced pressure build? Every single group I played with over the weekend managed to do it with ease. I expect and yet dread to hear answers like "we had no snares," "we ran out of energy because we didn't have +11 pips of energy regen from Soul Reaping," "we had no source of melee damage," or "we had no spike component to finish off low players." But, I'd like to hear it from you... How do you fail to score kills with a balanced pressure build?

I'm also wondering what about the update was "completely stupid" and wondering why it was that way. Please, enlighten me?

Life Bringer · Jan 23, 2007, 11:29 AM // 11:29

Im sorry mikkel but frankly you are talking out of your arse. You say that if the majoriy of pvp ers will start playing an aspect of pvp if changes are made they should be changed. That is frankly ridiculous: I have been ha ing for most of my time on GW (along with a lot of gvg) and it is not our duty to adapt to what pve ers want in ha it is upto them to adapt to the ha format, it works both ways, I would love FOW armour but I will nenver get as I dont enjoy pve enough to spend the time to get it I would love it if it were easy to get it and Im sure my ha friends would too, this does not mean that FOW armour should be made cheaper because ha ers want to get it more easliy. Im sorry and I know this is going to sound arogant but wisdom does come with age/expirience and it should be the rank9+ people that should be being listened to as they know about ha better than anyone else because they have played it most, people who have little expirience of ha and find it hard should not be being listened to.

Cass · Jan 23, 2007, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Whether PvEers or GvGers brought this doom to HA or not, forum polls now show that the majority of posters want 8vs8 back for HA. We can argue all day about whether these polls represent the average GW player well or not, but we don't know.
What we do know is that the polls do not reflect a group of oldschool niche players only-- you don't need R9 to sign up for any GW forum. Anyone can contribute. The statement about catering to a niche is thus invalid. Catering to the poll-participants and opinions expressed by forum'ers, yes. Anet should do that or cater to the cold stats about player numbers ingame, which only they have (if even).
They should not cater to opinions of 'important' players, a handful of 'special beta test' players, or to their own ill-founded fancies.

RotteN · Jan 23, 2007, 02:10 PM // 14:10

8v8 is the only format that makes sence, any other number will eventually result in either unability to bring enough defense or offense (in case you go below 8) or partywide skills being imbalanced (in case you go above 8). You cannot possibly want to balance a GW-like game for multiple playerformats, sure, it MIGHT be possible (never say never i guess), but right now, they're not even balancing stuff for one format...

that being said, keeping HA 6v6 will only result in abusable gimmicks if your main balance focus lies with 8v8

God Apprentice · Jan 23, 2007, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

Hi, I'm curious, how do you fail to score kills with a balanced pressure build? Every single group I played with over the weekend managed to do it with ease. I expect and yet dread to hear answers like "we had no snares," "we ran out of energy because we didn't have +11 pips of energy regen from Soul Reaping," "we had no source of melee damage," or "we had no spike component to finish off low players." But, I'd like to hear it from you... How do you fail to score kills with a balanced pressure build?

I'm also wondering what about the update was "completely stupid" and wondering why it was that way. Please, enlighten me?

11 pips of regen wtf

My question that I posed before has been utterly ignored.

Gaile, what prompted the decision made to change HA from 8 to 6?

An ex guildie who has a friend who works there at ANet said it was "to make it more accessible to new players"

I didn't see anything wrong with the way it was. People always mention "Oh there was fotms like IWAY, Bloodspike etc etc" When people observe things winning/and or holding they WILL COPY IT. I liked the final map of HoH, you had to fight a team BEFORE you could get a shot at the holding team, it felt like you were PROVING you could possibly be a threat to the holding team. Why is it there seems to be silence on this issue of 8v8? You have many many people here on Guru that would like it back, including myself. C'mon Gaile talk to us.

Zui · Jan 23, 2007, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by God Apprentice

11 pips of regen wtf

Hi, my name is Soul Reaping+Jagged Bones+Quickeing Zephyr. I give N/*s lots of energy to do whatever they want. It's about eleven additional pips of energy regenration, or fifteen total pips of energy regeneration. I quoted the post of a guy whos guild just so happens to run said build that abuses Soul Reaping to give N/*s lots of energy to do whatever they want. "WTF" indeed.

(This was the best response I could come up with without calling you a complete and total idiot. I realise it's fairly lacking, too, but it's not like you asked a real question or anything)

Lord Mendes · Jan 23, 2007, 04:38 PM // 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

Hi, my name is Soul Reaping+Jagged Bones+Quickeing Zephyr. I give N/*s lots of energy to do whatever they want. It's about eleven additional pips of energy regenration, or fifteen total pips of energy regeneration. I quoted the post of a guy whos guild just so happens to run said build that abuses Soul Reaping to give N/*s lots of energy to do whatever they want. "WTF" indeed.

Something along the lines of BiP stacking under QZ, and having 4 bippers rotating bips on everyone would have been a better answer imo.